tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post8540408096275916871..comments2024-02-26T00:59:26.907-08:00Comments on Ana the Imp: Necessary evilAnastasia F-Bhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-21882667146585870562010-11-11T16:35:41.440-08:002010-11-11T16:35:41.440-08:00RTK, if only. I would even be prepared to pay cer...RTK, if only. I would even be prepared to pay certain clerics to sling their hook. :-)Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-39167287864103820572010-11-11T12:07:46.217-08:002010-11-11T12:07:46.217-08:00Ana, I wasn't thinking of forced deportation, ...Ana, I wasn't thinking of forced deportation, which would be in breach of our courts' interpretation of the HRA, (not real 'rights' of course, merely those conjured up in the minds of our inceasingly eccentric judges), but more along the lines of encouraging them to reclaim their full, unrestrained liberty somewhere more sympathetic to their wold view a long, long way away from England, never to return...This Royal Throne of Kingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01847832884947135086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-46089604871650907762010-11-11T02:19:05.173-08:002010-11-11T02:19:05.173-08:00Calvin, I think that may be overstating the point ...Calvin, I think that may be overstating the point slightly. It's true, though, that the actions of a minority, or their <i>potential</i> for action, certainly has caused a degree of paranoia, if that's the right word, though it's slightly more widely based. The trouble is also that the British 'people' are more fragmented now than at almost any other point in history.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-12917797073700764702010-11-11T02:16:04.286-08:002010-11-11T02:16:04.286-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Fletch's Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16402507296202065300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-54204643075007118382010-11-10T21:24:10.374-08:002010-11-10T21:24:10.374-08:00Contrary to rumour, it is we, the people, who prot...Contrary to rumour, it is we, the people, who protect our nation and our government, not the reverse. Ironically, the British government has come to fear its own people more than it fears enemies foreign or domestic. This is characteristic of authoritarian and totalitarian regimes, and reflects a deep disfunction in British politics. The origins of political paranoia are various and worthy of discussion on their own some other time, but the cure is of more moment: the British people must demand the return of the power and sovereignty they have lent their political leaders and use that power to reestablish their individual liberties and reassume their personal responsibilities.Calvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10640148105202971907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-25291443760627965052010-11-10T15:49:38.728-08:002010-11-10T15:49:38.728-08:00RTK, Control Orders came as a last option after ex...RTK, Control Orders came as a last option after expulsion was considered to be a breach of youman rights.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-52669615150739733462010-11-10T15:48:26.554-08:002010-11-10T15:48:26.554-08:00Dominic, especially in the era of the dirty bomb. ...Dominic, especially in the era of the dirty bomb. Thank you for this A1 contribution. I should have added this earlier.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-73455861956471606222010-11-10T15:03:31.369-08:002010-11-10T15:03:31.369-08:00Assume nothing my dear, kill them all!Assume nothing my dear, kill them all!anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02931330128135957439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-50025878073888976202010-11-10T12:14:58.289-08:002010-11-10T12:14:58.289-08:00On the money again, Ana.
But one point which has ...On the money again, Ana.<br /><br />But one point which has escaped mention, unless I've missed it, is that those made the subject of Control Orders can avoid their strictures by the simple expedient of leaving the country, never to return.<br /><br />Shouldn't we be encouraging the Controlled Nine to do exactly that for both our sakes and theirs?<br /><br />Or am I being hideously illiberal...This Royal Throne of Kingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01847832884947135086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-1792261248251383742010-11-10T05:29:40.132-08:002010-11-10T05:29:40.132-08:00Oh, I know that Ana, I know...Oh, I know that Ana, I know...Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00145734042272196687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-69294629525288407562010-11-10T05:14:29.110-08:002010-11-10T05:14:29.110-08:00Dominic, I used the expression because Davis refer...Dominic, I used the expression because Davis referred to our present government as the Brokeback coalition, after the movie, the gay movie. :-))Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-82176801728509318662010-11-10T01:59:59.063-08:002010-11-10T01:59:59.063-08:00Adam, Blair was nothing nothing nothing like Hitle...Adam, Blair was nothing nothing nothing like Hitler. Neither was George W. Bush.<br /><br />Which is where your argument falls apart.Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00145734042272196687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-12149628114660096752010-11-10T01:56:11.324-08:002010-11-10T01:56:11.324-08:00Not sure about this label of "broken back coa...Not sure about this label of "broken back coalition". How about "the Benn-d coalition", instead? (Oh damn it, just call them the Benders to annoy Davis some more)<br /><br />I was supportive Davis in his leadership bid against Cameron (what now seems like way back when), but his very conduct during that campaign (remember the girls in the DD tops?), and some of his subsequent actions (instead of leading a constructive campaign on an issue he felt strongly about, bring about a wholly unnecessary, expensive, self-publicising election in which he managed in a remarkable effort to defeat the combined forces of the National Front, the Green Party and the East Yorkshire Foottappers and Whippet-Owners Party) strongly suggest that, whatever other admirable qualities he may (and does) have, he really isn't cut out to lead the Conservative Party, let alone the country. He is less of an ass than Benn, of course.<br /><br />But, anyway, that aside: yes in the current context of an innovative and ruthless jihadi war against Western civilisation - or indeed anybody who stands in the jihadis' way (and it was not us, after all, who declared that war or chose to be involved in it)- I am inclined, regrettably it is true, that such orders ARE probably necessary for the greater good, and for the greater and enduring liberty. <br /><br />If there was evidence that these orders are being abused (or applied indiscriminately)....that is a different matter. But, thus far, at least, that has not been the case. <br /><br />(Abolishing double jeopardy: and ASBOs - where you have things like where a woman who answers the front door in her underwear can be sent to prison...whereas perhaps finishing school might be more appropriate.... I think THOSE - along with EU and other European related matters - were and are unwarranted and unnecessary attacks upon liberty (however attractive a solution ASBOs appear in certain, even many, specific circumstances, they are patently open to abuse, and have patently, frequently, been abused by those issuing them).<br /><br />But until the jihadi menace is defeated (or at least quietened down) - which is unlikely to be any time soon - some degree of extraordinary measures to deal with it would appear to be warranted; the fact that up until now, with certain obvious exceptions, their horrendous ambitions to kill on the large scale have not been matched by technical proficiency is no reason for us to be complacent.Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00145734042272196687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-69674744521719042172010-11-10T01:54:58.037-08:002010-11-10T01:54:58.037-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Fletch's Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16402507296202065300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-25610877504243942502010-11-10T01:54:02.136-08:002010-11-10T01:54:02.136-08:00Adam, a lot of that could apply to just about any ...Adam, a lot of that could apply to just about any period in history, from Ancient Greece onwards. It's so sweeping as to be practically meaningless.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-32595272624934351542010-11-10T01:28:19.618-08:002010-11-10T01:28:19.618-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Fletch's Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16402507296202065300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-35257921380004620382010-11-10T01:28:09.921-08:002010-11-10T01:28:09.921-08:00Sucio
I never liked Blair, but I think you may be...Sucio<br /><br />I never liked Blair, but I think you may be being a little unkind.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12833152757060762914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-64166168684708628662010-11-10T01:27:14.715-08:002010-11-10T01:27:14.715-08:00David, you musn't mind me. I'm a contrari...David, you musn't mind me. I'm a contrarian by nature. I have a tendency to push points for polemical effect. I confess, though, the Davis-Benn axis annoys me deeply.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-22185179120265214932010-11-10T01:25:43.596-08:002010-11-10T01:25:43.596-08:00Suciô, your assessment of Blair is spot on.Suciô, your assessment of Blair is spot on.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-559174335535603462010-11-10T01:24:44.764-08:002010-11-10T01:24:44.764-08:00Calvin, we need protection, our society needs prot...Calvin, we need protection, our society needs protection; we have to be vigilant against any potential menace, especially now. Much of what you say, though, I simply can't take issue with.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-20657711415114870212010-11-10T01:23:33.697-08:002010-11-10T01:23:33.697-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Fletch's Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16402507296202065300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-45019346335499750852010-11-10T01:23:07.360-08:002010-11-10T01:23:07.360-08:00Anthony, a good point. So I assume you are in fav...Anthony, a good point. So I assume you are in favour of freeing all those held in Guantanamo Bay?Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-77363768002295670132010-11-10T01:21:48.199-08:002010-11-10T01:21:48.199-08:00Adam, I sincerely hope you never find out what fas...Adam, I sincerely hope you never find out what fascism is. I'm reminded of the banner headline which appeared in <i>Die rote Fahne</i>, the newspaper of the KPD, the German Communist Party, the day after Henrich Brunning was appointed Chancellor in 1930, heading a minority government depending on Presidential support; <i>Faschismus ist scohn da!</i>, it screamed, Fascism is now here. They were to find out three years later just how wrong they were.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-33297203085121847212010-11-09T23:18:53.043-08:002010-11-09T23:18:53.043-08:00Good article. I resent the dismissive words about ...Good article. I resent the dismissive words about David Davis. He is certainly no fool.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12833152757060762914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-50098703802080362582010-11-09T18:26:44.389-08:002010-11-09T18:26:44.389-08:00As in just about everything else, Blair had securi...As in just about everything else, Blair had security regulations arse-about-face. Consider airport security scanning: if you're not prepared to identify (profile) your enemies you end up using whole body imaging scans on Scandinavian grannies. By the same token, if you insist on describing Islam as a "religion of peace" you end up with draconian, blanket police powers that end up being applied to traffic offenders, p2p sharers, BNP bigots and other easy targets.<br /><br />Blair wasn't a fascist - he had all the trappings but the sad s.o.b. had no guiding beliefs to give meaning to his statist bullshit. He <i>was</i> the most profoundly illiberal PM I could name - through sheer ignorance and vanity rather than due to any kind of fundamental principles. He was too much of a moral coward to ever formulate or articulate any such principles.<br /><br />It's a measure of the debasement of British political thought that he's not being burnt in effigy every Bonfire Night.<br /><br />People get the politicians they deserve. Blair was the perfect PM for a nation of chav contestants in a particularly depressing reality TV show.Suciô Sanchezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12365362145664625757noreply@blogger.com