tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post1127580736945564624..comments2024-02-26T00:59:26.907-08:00Comments on Ana the Imp: The Right Advances Across EuropeAnastasia F-Bhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-14455119706946566672010-04-18T15:20:45.163-07:002010-04-18T15:20:45.163-07:00OC, I might come and join you. :-))OC, I might come and join you. :-))Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-39825269647959464082010-04-18T15:19:27.309-07:002010-04-18T15:19:27.309-07:00Hi, Keith
Yes, of course it’s OK. Sorry for the ...Hi, Keith<br /><br />Yes, of course it’s OK. Sorry for the delay in publishing but I tend to be otherwise engaged at the weekend. :-)<br /><br />I’m sure that you will not be surprised to discover that I find that particular explanatory model, a Marxist model, virtually useless when it comes to practical history. I do not believe that the ‘ruling class’ can be identified as a given set of people or a given set of perspectives. We are talking, after all, about people, I’m not sure how you would define them exactly, but let’s, for the sake of convenience, say landed gentry at the one extreme and industrial magnates at the other, who take a multiplicity of views. Yes, I suppose it is possible to argue that this group did turn to the Fascists in Italy and the Nazis in Germany in their fear over the possibility of social revolution. <br /><br />But the problem immediately arises over why the ‘ruling classes’ reached out for movements of the extreme right in these countries and not in, say, France, where the perceived danger of social revolution was just as acute. Why did fascism fail, moreover, across most of central and eastern Europe before the Second World War? Why did the ruling classes in Germany and Italy not resort the same authoritarian rule that brought Horthy to power in Hungary, Pilsudski to power in Poland and Dollfuss to power in Austria, to mention but three examples. Why, moreover, did the German 'ruling classes' resort to a movement like Nazism, inherently unstable, extreme beyond all reasonable boundaries, and ultimately as collectivist and as big a danger to their position as the Communists? <br /><br />I know of no evidence that suggests that the British elite as a whole ever seriously considered supporting a native fascist party. Some toyed with Mosley, but very few; some had a positive view of Hitler, but again very few. And the idea that the ‘ruling class’ would ever turn to the likes of Griffin and his semi-educated thugs I find wholly ludicrous.<br /><br />I’m an empiricist, Keith; I don’t like abstract models; I don’t like the one size fits all view of history.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-23282672736105535542010-04-16T13:26:31.879-07:002010-04-16T13:26:31.879-07:00Dear Ana
Yes I believe the characteristics do var...Dear Ana<br /><br />Yes I believe the characteristics do vary according to various historical factors in a given country. But fascism as a movement or party is based not on whether someone votes for it at a given time or not. It is based on programme and perspective. The rise of any fascist movement is geared to the fact that the ruling elite becomes so scared of social revolution that it resorts to the fascists to deal with the working class. In Britain there have been few occaisions when the British ruling elite has toyed with developing a fascist party. This not to say they will not, after all the British elite and its monarchy had and has deeop ties with the movement of the fascists in Germany. On one more point the Labour party has been the major bulwark against revolution in this country for a century its demise has revolutionary implications, the current political course may take a left or right one.<br /><br />Ps I would like to reprint this correspondence on my blog is that ok.<br /><br />regards<br /><br />keithA Trumpet of Seditionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15939277501123944811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-20969063966856791082010-04-16T09:30:34.400-07:002010-04-16T09:30:34.400-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.The Old- okay fine young- Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08098961110262289454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-78547163628687524202010-04-15T16:22:29.517-07:002010-04-15T16:22:29.517-07:00Thanks, Merson. Actually it’s almost impossible t...Thanks, Merson. Actually it’s almost impossible to build a single satisfactory model of ‘fascism’ because its characteristics vary so widely. Yes, in the German and Italian examples it was a party of the lower middle class, though the net was almost invariably cast wider. It’s complicated by the fact that in Germany the catholic middle classes remained largely loyal to the old Centre Party. <br /><br />It would seem to me, though, that all the evidence suggests that the BNP receives most of its support not just from the working class but the most disadvantaged sections of the working class. Most of the votes the party got in the Euro election came from traditional Labour heartlands. Besides, the party programme itself could easily have been drawn up by Old Labour. I certainly agree that the Labour Party have treated many of their traditional supporters shamefully.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-20382177536293920262010-04-15T02:32:24.926-07:002010-04-15T02:32:24.926-07:00Hi,
I don't agree with your characterisation ...Hi,<br /><br />I don't agree with your characterisation of the BNP as a movement of the working class. Fascism is primarily a middle class party. Historically the sections of the working that join or vote are usually its least concious or socially disadvantaged. In Germany the betrayal of social democracy and Stalinism played the most important role in the rise of the fascists. The growth of the BNP in Britian is a direct product of the treachery of the Labour Party.A Trumpet of Seditionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15939277501123944811noreply@blogger.com