tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post5320274801076207894..comments2024-02-26T00:59:26.907-08:00Comments on Ana the Imp: Genocidal ThoughtsAnastasia F-Bhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-29520430591496202772012-05-27T16:11:31.804-07:002012-05-27T16:11:31.804-07:00FC, I do not think it wise to pull stuff off the i...FC, I do not think it wise to pull stuff off the internet, at least without considerable cross-referencing; there is simply too much misinformation. Please believe me that I always research the topics I write about. You may not like my conclusion but I try to be as fair and as objective as I can be.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-55929037222251924812012-05-27T15:54:35.965-07:002012-05-27T15:54:35.965-07:00It was systematic, please google Pan-Turkism and i...It was systematic, please google Pan-Turkism and it's ideology, it's similar to Nazism.<br />Also there were similar people in Turkey, such as the Butcher of Van.<br />Please be sure to research the topic properly before making a judgement.<br /><br />Thank you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992923167530184928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-69666563908423759232010-03-09T15:54:51.695-08:002010-03-09T15:54:51.695-08:00Thanks, Levent. Some people do find it difficult ...Thanks, Levent. Some people do find it difficult to be objective here, and I do understand why. But it's as well to remember we are taking about events that took place almost a hundred years ago. Moreover, did genocide, I have to ask myself, only beginn in the twentieth century? No easy answers; there never will be.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-4295661061056375202010-03-09T06:10:46.927-08:002010-03-09T06:10:46.927-08:00Ana,
You have put it quite well. It's a compl...Ana,<br /><br />You have put it quite well. It's a complicated issue. I will not discuss it here.<br />You may find this of interest:<br />http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/mccarthy-firstshot.htm<br /><br />What sickens me is that this misery is milked/exploited by politicians and the Armenian diaspora. <br /><br />Thank you.Leventhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03434875778313884956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-89294778295920708472010-03-08T16:06:43.750-08:002010-03-08T16:06:43.750-08:00It's was a hooror, Nitin, amongst many histori...It's was a hooror, Nitin, amongst many historical horrors. Now its reduced to semantics and politics.<br /><br />WG, the Armenians, I presume, and lots of others, wherever they have made their presence felt in the world. <br /><br />It's not that modern Turkey refuses to recognise that something dreadful did happen; rather it's how these killings should be interpreted. There is far too much emotion; understandable emotion, yes, but not helpeful in clarifying the issues.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-76015224368012369372010-03-08T06:51:25.209-08:002010-03-08T06:51:25.209-08:00"Who now remembers the Armenians?" - Ado..."Who now remembers the Armenians?" - Adolph Hitler, prior to attempting to exterminate European Jews.<br /><br />But yes, this was a crime of the Ottoman Empire rather than modern day Turkey. I am sure it would be better to simply acknowledge what took place whilst also pointing out that this was a different state, and a different people. Refusing to recognise that just perpetuates it.Wildgoosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14884595915411975940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-48900000844219611882010-03-08T00:21:51.151-08:002010-03-08T00:21:51.151-08:00yea.. you are right.. it wasn't a systematic e...yea.. you are right.. it wasn't a systematic extermination. but then a lot dead people is a lot of dead people. genocide or not it shouldn't matter whether you get to pin that label onto the occurrence of it. it doesn't make it any worse than what had happened. it has happened. there were victims and there are sill survivors. so the only big argument is on the scale of terrible how terrible it really is? my take is that its terrible and that in itself was a failure to protect their rights and hence bad.Nitinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03067973096892435321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-60730051675736891782010-03-07T15:41:32.242-08:002010-03-07T15:41:32.242-08:00It's possible to use the word 'Holocaust&#...It's possible to use the word 'Holocaust' in a wider sense, as in the Gypsy Holocaust, though I agree most people think of it specifically in relation to the Nazi extermination of the Jews. The term Jewish people prefer is 'Shoah'.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-52816043708608828022010-03-07T15:30:21.353-08:002010-03-07T15:30:21.353-08:00Some interesting aspects are raised here. The Arme...Some interesting aspects are raised here. The Armenians as a people declared war against the Turks, sure. When it was blatantly obvious to theTutsi what the Hutu were up to, so did they as did the jews when they finally got around to what the nazis were up to. <br /><br />Now I am neither no big fan of sound bites, god knows my fecking university loves them, so they stick them on every bloody thing they produce. Anywho, what I trying to get to the bottom of is this; how come 'holocaust' is a reserved label for the destruction of the jews but nothing else. Rather why must it be such a sacred label when seemingly everything else is arbitrarily applied nowadays (to be fair, eurocrats tend to compare eurosceptics as nazis and say that without european integration we are to get another holocaust). Think of the label of 'racism' every bloody person in this country is a racist by today's standard, so seeing as we have become so liberal when it comes to the application of derogatory words, why is this not extended to 'holocaust'.13th Spitfirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17559256605304975963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-24302487284150218022010-03-07T15:11:34.021-08:002010-03-07T15:11:34.021-08:00Thanks to both of you. It is a complicated issue ...Thanks to both of you. It is a complicated issue and there is clearly never going to be an easy resolution. My guess is that it will take another hundred years or so before the whole thing falls into proper perspective.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-12220768199661457592010-03-07T14:02:01.815-08:002010-03-07T14:02:01.815-08:00I'd like to add more information about so-call...I'd like to add more information about so-called "evidence" pictures:<br />After Armenians refused to fight beside Ottoman in WWI against Allies, they declared war for establishing their independent country. Ottoman government decided to separate civilians to protect them from war between Armenian and Ottoman forces. So they applied forced emigration to Armenian civilians as much as Turks. Some of innocent Armenian people didn't want to move and died in war, some of them died bcs of epidemic diseases during emigration. So-called "evidence" pictures were taken during these emigrations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-50137174223777337732010-03-07T13:21:16.345-08:002010-03-07T13:21:16.345-08:00No, Ottoman absolutely didn't intend to kill a...No, Ottoman absolutely didn't intend to kill any minorities. Besides they gave Armenians work and high level government jobs. Why do they suddenly decide to kill an important minority that has contributed the country a lot?? (ex: Zildjian) <br />Actually Armenian thesis are based on a newspaper article in 1922 (Daily Telegraph) that claims Talat Pasha who was the leader of Young Turks that controlled the Ottoman government during WWI ordered to "kill every single Armenian immediately". In the Official Ottoman archives that was opened by Turkish Government, his order corresponds only to "a transportation for specific people". It is also proven that this news was created by an French Armenian.<br />I'd like to add some information about 300,000 Armenian deaths. It was WWI and 1915!! Armenians declared war against Ottoman Empire and most of them died in the conflict face to face. <br />I'm deeply sorry for innocent Armenians who died in 1915 but does anybody care for Turks that were killed by Armenians??<br />We are ready to face with our history but we cannot accept a crime which we never committed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-49666331048193207502010-03-07T13:21:16.346-08:002010-03-07T13:21:16.346-08:00But did not the Turks try to exterminate Armenians...But did not the Turks try to exterminate Armenians? Indeed is that not always the intent of genocide, the Hutu did intend to eradicate the Tutsi. I cannot think of a possible scenario where the antagonists are not trying to wholesomely render their opponents without a fighting opportunity, hence by destroying them. <br /><br />Why would you botch a job, like genocide, instead of completing it. I agree with you this has to be thought trough rationally without emotions. So I pose the question to you, as a commander would there be any reasons in not completely destroying your enemy? (ergo introducing genocide and holocaust).13th Spitfirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17559256605304975963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-24625403499756467982010-03-07T12:12:38.821-08:002010-03-07T12:12:38.821-08:00Wow, that was quick! Possibly too quick? The thi...Wow, that was quick! Possibly too quick? The thing is, Spitfire, there is far too much emotion here. These are issues that have to be thought about calmly. The number is not important. The Mongols killed countless numbers in China but not with the intention of exterminating the whole race. The Hutu did intend to exterminate the Tutsi- as the Nazis the Jews-so, yes, that was genocide. But did the Turks intend to exterminate all of the Armenians? These are complex issues. I'm just trying to think things through in the most rational way I can.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-6708561648658806302010-03-07T12:05:16.246-08:002010-03-07T12:05:16.246-08:00So an act of genocide has to be a planned act, the...So an act of genocide has to be a planned act, the killing of hundreds of thousands of people just for the hell of it is not genocide according to you? What of Rwanda then in 1994? Was that not genocide, just because 800,000 were not 'planned' victims they are not to be equated to holocaust. That is very strange I must say. <br /><br />You seem confused over precisely what 'holocaust' means, it is any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life. And I do emphasise "reckless" - any pointless destruction of life whether planned or not is or should be equated to genocide and the holocaust (I do not see why we to get hung up on the holocaust word, I think it funny that a simple word so arouse so much emotion). <br /><br />It seems that, according to you, that one has to reach some kind of revolutionary apex in the mutilation of human life, for one to accord one self in the books of 'holocaust'. That a even lower pits in Dante's inferno should automatically reserve such a divine right to call one's slaughter 'holocaust'?<br /><br />Why?<br /><br />(I do apologise if my tone is a tad aggressive, not my intention at all, but as you say this subject does stir up a lot of emotions whether one is Turkish or not - it appears that we British still have feelings despite what OUR reckless government appears to believe).13th Spitfirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17559256605304975963noreply@blogger.com