tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post5031930814312302847..comments2024-02-26T00:59:26.907-08:00Comments on Ana the Imp: The Unsinkable TitanicAnastasia F-Bhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-76824961656175772082012-04-23T15:18:54.990-07:002012-04-23T15:18:54.990-07:00CB, thanks. My apologies for missing this comment...CB, thanks. My apologies for missing this comment. I don't think I got an email alert.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-40839605661448255672012-04-23T04:36:20.106-07:002012-04-23T04:36:20.106-07:00Something I need to watch at some point.Something I need to watch at some point.Rehan Qayoomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02391797858691917631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-21252464278742221862012-04-19T15:49:38.549-07:002012-04-19T15:49:38.549-07:00Thanks, CB. I picked up all sorts of fascinating ...Thanks, CB. I picked up all sorts of fascinating snippets of information while researching this article. For example, the body of Jacob Astor was found with over $3000 soggy dollars in his pockets. That would be the equivalent of, oh, about $60000 in today’s values. Just imagine carrying that amount around on your person. I know he died in the age before plastic but even so.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-1772692048755934362012-04-18T21:03:54.861-07:002012-04-18T21:03:54.861-07:00Ana, just as a late addendum, I just ran across th...Ana, just as a late addendum, I just ran across this interesting online article at The NewYorker:<br /><br />newyorker.com/reporting/2012/04/16/120416fa_fact_mendelsohn<br /><br />It includes many interesting details I hadn't seen before, especially descriptions of notable books and films about the disaster.ColonialBoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14408255297226140956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-9944339815847209402012-04-09T15:22:30.949-07:002012-04-09T15:22:30.949-07:00Oops, I crave your pardon, my good lord. :-)Oops, I crave your pardon, my good lord. :-)Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-62816897537679289542012-04-09T00:39:04.441-07:002012-04-09T00:39:04.441-07:00"Richard"?
With all respect to Richard ..."Richard"?<br /><br />With all respect to Richard Godwin, I am suddenly reminded of one of my favourite scenes in Shakespeare: Act I, Scene II of RICHARD III, from which I offer this slightly amended excerpt:<br /><br />LADY ANA<br /><br />Where is he?<br /><br />RICHARD<br /><br />Here.<br /><br />She spitteth at him<br /><br />Why dost thou spit at me?<br /><br />LADY ANA<br /><br />Would it were mortal poison, for thy sake!<br /><br />RICHARD<br /><br />Never came poison from so sweet a place.Chris Coffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16599801901347194290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-392483062541682292012-04-05T15:43:13.870-07:002012-04-05T15:43:13.870-07:00Not at all trivial, Richard, a good illustration o...Not at all trivial, Richard, a good illustration of the descent of manners!Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-47800082411342336642012-04-05T02:15:13.746-07:002012-04-05T02:15:13.746-07:00Hi Ana, I see that you've elicited many commen...Hi Ana, I see that you've elicited many comments already on this post, and Calvin, Richard Godwin, Angry Toad, and colonial boy have already written particularly fascinating responses . . .<br /><br />In comparison, mine is really quite a minor, wispy pensee, at best . . . but here goes:<br /><br />When I was a young New York banker in the early 80s, I used to reflect that the elaborate courtesy and order of precedence I observed every time a lift (aka elevator) arrived on the 44th floor of the skyscraper in which I worked--older women would enter first, followed by younger women, then older men, and at last younger men--would play out very differently if the lift were a life boat. My view at the time was that the underlying commercial ferocity of the milieu was merely cloaked in social rituals because little was, in fact, at stake.<br /><br />A generation later, I confess that at least a decade ago I ceased to hesitate before stepping into lifts as soon as physically possible, after I repeatedly experienced the lift door slamming once I had allowed a young woman to enter the lift first--only to have her fail to hold open the door for anybody else--including me, her (very minor) benefactor.<br /><br />I realise that your other readers, particularly those cited above, have made far weightier comments about other aspects of your post, but I add one only because it seems to be in harmony with your own reflections and because I recall the old dictum that "Men make laws and women make mores--and mores rule society" as justification for this apparently trivial exercise in "A la recherche du temps perdu" . . .Chris Coffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16599801901347194290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-87310789037449774332012-04-03T17:40:26.732-07:002012-04-03T17:40:26.732-07:00@ ColonialBoy: Never use money to measure wealth.@ ColonialBoy: Never use money to measure wealth.anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02931330128135957439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-68403355106675242072012-04-03T16:23:53.296-07:002012-04-03T16:23:53.296-07:00*the war. I've lost my edit function!*the war. I've lost my edit function!Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-90115514748819811742012-04-03T16:22:59.873-07:002012-04-03T16:22:59.873-07:00CB, this is absolutely fascinating. There are dim...CB, this is absolutely fascinating. There are dimensions here I simply had not considered. I don't know an awful lot about naval architecture though I do know that some of the much lauded naval warships built at the time were eventually proved inferior to their German counterparts. So far as American entry into is concerned there were two large and influential constituencies that militated against that - the Irish and the Germans.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-69572663068980040522012-04-03T16:16:03.704-07:002012-04-03T16:16:03.704-07:00TAT, a brilliant précis! Actually, I think that y...TAT, a brilliant précis! Actually, I think that you will find that most of the first class passengers are American. Anyway, as I say, this is a subject with endless perspectives. :-)Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-71096428098514526362012-04-03T16:11:49.430-07:002012-04-03T16:11:49.430-07:00Richard, yes, that's wonderful! I haven't ...Richard, yes, that's wonderful! I haven't read Lord Jim but I have it in my Conrad collection. I must get round to it soon.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-19941211343826450332012-04-03T16:09:58.619-07:002012-04-03T16:09:58.619-07:00David, I didn't pick up on the Brit-bashing. ...David, I didn't pick up on the Brit-bashing. I haven't seen Gallipoli but I really hated Braveheart. I'm surprised that the Scots did not see through this awful travesty of their history.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-34589116392885897052012-04-03T16:06:45.555-07:002012-04-03T16:06:45.555-07:00Calvin, I've just checked the link on your cou...Calvin, I've just checked the link on your cousin. I'm so sorry to learn that he did not survive.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-24491001746370734902012-04-03T16:04:07.059-07:002012-04-03T16:04:07.059-07:00No, I have not. I'll Google it in a bit.No, I have not. I'll Google it in a bit.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-25487218768870519672012-04-03T16:03:31.408-07:002012-04-03T16:03:31.408-07:00I think not!I think not!Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-7331400542560706962012-04-03T15:23:26.853-07:002012-04-03T15:23:26.853-07:00Ana, as always, a fascinating subject!
Of course,...Ana, as always, a fascinating subject!<br /><br />Of course, Cameron's film is what I would call a "Historical Fantasy" - a film produced with meticulous attention to historical accuracy for the sets, props, & costuming, but total fantasy as regards personal relationships. Rose and Jack may get billed as "star crossed lovers" but the Montegues & Capulets were both WEALTHY families! It was just too improbabable (knowing what I do about how stratified AMERICAN society was at that time, much less you Brits) for me to accept a plot that had a wealthy young woman giving up everything to be with a penniless steerage class lout. That being said, I did LOVE those sets! :-)<br /><br />Two aspects of the Titanic disaster interest me - the first (due to my passing interest in naval architecture) being the engineering studies. I found an interesting paper that you might enjoy reading (if you can tolerate that it was composed by an undergrad mechanical engineering student and NOT a historian ) from Virgina Tech's Engineering Review: [http://www.writing.eng.vt.edu/uer/bassett.html] In it, Ms. Bassett points out that despite the luxurious appointments, the hull was built with plates and rivets of poor quality steel (too much sulphur) which shattered (instead of bending) when the ship struck the iceberg. She also made some interesting comments about flaws in the ship design.<br /><br />A second area of interest to me is considering what effect did it have on the American economic system when so many of its "best and brightest" died at once. I found an interesting site [http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org] which contains VERY complete passenger info. If you hunt through the 1st Class fatalities, you will not only see obvious VIPs like John Astor (and other "blue bloods"), but also a whole collection of financiers, stockbrokers, and Presidential advisors. <br /><br />Did loosing so many major players (with their obvious international connections) contribute to the US's reluctance to enter WW1 (that started just 2 years later)? <br /><br />Most of their children survived - but what effect did loosing their fathers so prematurely have on their view on the world? Did it contribute to the risky behaviour that caused the collapse of the US financial system just 25 years later?<br /><br />Lots of points to ponder - when you compare the 1500 that drowned to the millions that died in France within the next 5 years, the loss of this one ship has had an outsized effect on Western history.ColonialBoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14408255297226140956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-30269337026843628142012-04-03T14:19:11.213-07:002012-04-03T14:19:11.213-07:00For those of you who can't be bothered to see ...For those of you who can't be bothered to see the film, here's a brief precis;<br /><br />The ship is officered by arrogant Englishmen. The 1st class cabins are peopled by arrogant English men and women. The ship is crewed by thick, ignorant English working class troglodites. The film depicts the struggle of heroic salt-of-the-earth Americans and Irish types against the arrogant and ignorant English. The ship sinks...the end.<br /><br />In other words, it's "Hollywood History" - yet another distortion of the truth to fit the current American liberal-left worldview (yes, I know it was released in 1997....it's still how they think).The Amazing Toadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04269683258775831265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-25531363097168993912012-04-03T11:30:39.534-07:002012-04-03T11:30:39.534-07:00Ana you may enjoy Hardy's Convergence Of The T...Ana you may enjoy Hardy's Convergence Of The Twain.<br />"In a solitude of the sea Deep from human vanity,<br />And the Pride of Life that planned her, stilly couches she. <br />Steel chambers, late the pyres<br />Of her salamandrine fires,<br />Cold currents thrid, and turn to rhythmic tidal lyres."<br />Women were never the weaker sex.<br />For a great literary exploration of the theme of survivor guilt I bid you look no further than Joseph Conrad's Lord Jim. The hero spends his life trying to redeem a moment of cowardice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-40450297380073400022012-04-03T06:33:48.483-07:002012-04-03T06:33:48.483-07:00I believe that the 1958 Kenneth More film, A Night...I believe that the 1958 Kenneth More film, A Night to Remember, was more faithful to the actual facts. <br /><br />I deliberately abstained from watching "Titanic" when I read that it was yet another piece of Hollywood Brit-bashing along the lines of Braveheart and Gallipoli.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12833152757060762914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-42165645788824371442012-04-02T18:33:00.123-07:002012-04-02T18:33:00.123-07:00One of my cousins went down with her:
http://www....One of my cousins went down with her:<br /><br />http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-victim/john-james-borebank.html<br /><br />Clearly, he was familiar with the Birkenhead Drill:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Birkenhead_(1845)Calvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10640148105202971907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-64089953572268893092012-04-02T17:51:17.757-07:002012-04-02T17:51:17.757-07:00"A Dangerous Method" is a good film, hav..."A Dangerous Method" is a good film, have you seen it?anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02931330128135957439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-88943160952863142842012-04-02T17:46:30.764-07:002012-04-02T17:46:30.764-07:00Yes, it sank and now you can watch it sink again i...Yes, it sank and now you can watch it sink again in 3D.anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02931330128135957439noreply@blogger.com