tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post3471457884846337485..comments2024-02-26T00:59:26.907-08:00Comments on Ana the Imp: Restraint of AppealsAnastasia F-Bhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-73026311302248428712012-01-31T15:12:34.088-08:002012-01-31T15:12:34.088-08:00Nobby, actually I don't judge the monarchy by ...Nobby, actually I don't judge the monarchy by the same criteria as the church, considering the church to embody a spiritual idea. At the time of John and Innocent III the church still had a kind of universal mandate, uncomplicated by temporal and territorial power. At the time of the Renaissance popes temporal power was at a premium, with Julius acting and behaving like his pagan namesake. Henry was religiously orthodox but his principle concern was over the future of the monarchy. Even after the break he continued to 'defend the faith' by his own lights. As I say, there were times when it was positively dangerous to be a Protestant, a threat that carried even so far as Catherine Parr, his final queen.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-69010601395201125332012-01-31T03:14:46.580-08:002012-01-31T03:14:46.580-08:00For the sake of one last bite of this Tudor cherry...For the sake of one last bite of this Tudor cherry I will make a final point Ana. If you judge the Monarchy on the same criteria as the Catholic Church do you suppose there would be any farther discussion beyond King John? I agree Henry was a Defender of the State - such a thing would be much welcome today - but he was certainly no Defender of the Faith despite the claim made on coinage of that time.<br /><br />"Power into will, will into appetite,<br />And, appetite, an universal wolf."Nobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10088033081316289008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-76534071297900633532012-01-30T15:19:01.978-08:002012-01-30T15:19:01.978-08:00Nobby, the Catholic Church was not a foreign power...Nobby, the Catholic Church was not a foreign power but the Pope was a foreign prince. You have to consider the nature of the early Renaissance papacy, particularly in the characters of the people I’ve alluded to. There was nothing in the least spiritual about Julius II, to take perhaps the most notorious example. Here I would refer you to <i>Julius Excluded from Heaven</i>, thought to have been written by Erasmus, a man who still remained loyal to the faith. <br /><br />The thing is, Nobby, the English Reformation is far more to do with politics than religion. Henry’s arguments for an annulment to his marriage to Catherine might have been taken seriously; an annulment at that point could very well have kept the English Church as part of the Catholic community. But Clement, after the ghastly sack of Rome in 1527, was in the power of the emperor Charles V, who deserves to be better known as the real architect of the English Reformation. <br /><br />Incidentally, Anne Boleyn was a committed Protestant, who had her head chopped off as an act of political convenience. Katherine Howard, much more orthodox insofar as she was capable of any serious thought, had her head chopped off because she was a traitor, so defined by her own sexual indiscretions. Thomas More did indeed place a higher loyalty to the Pope in Rome than the King in Westminster.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-7116151646611655612012-01-30T11:36:10.388-08:002012-01-30T11:36:10.388-08:00But this is untrue, Ana. Did his two wives and Sir...But this is untrue, Ana. Did his two wives and Sir Thomas More - all of whom had their heads chopped off - owe allegiance to a foreign power? If you mean the Catholic Church was a foreign power it was a power that had served England well for the previous five hundred years. Catholicism created English liberty: The Jury system, The House of Commons, Common Law are all Catholic in origin; "they laid the foundations of Liber et Legalis Homo, the Free and Lawful Man", But now this concept was being eroded. I wonder why?Nobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10088033081316289008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-51994245414889679612012-01-29T15:36:42.019-08:002012-01-29T15:36:42.019-08:00I like the Chesterton quote, though I'm not su...I like the Chesterton quote, though I'm not sure that I would describe popes like Alexander VI, Julius II and Leo III as the best representatives of 'Aristotelian liberality.' Libertines, certainly. <br />:-)Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-86138265594452800642012-01-29T15:33:53.301-08:002012-01-29T15:33:53.301-08:00Thanks, Nobby, but those killed by Henry were kill...Thanks, Nobby, but those killed by Henry were killed not for being Catholic but for owing allegiance to a foreign power. Henry was completely orthodox. He always maintained that he was a schismatic and not a heretic. After the break with Rome his regime was notable for the occasional persecution of Protestants. Even his last queen, Catherine Parr, came under threat. He did not rewrite the script of England, as you put it, in pursuit of ‘personal pleasures.’ He was as adept as any other English monarch in this regard, pursuing personal pleasure irrespective of their marital status. Bessie Blount and Mary Boleyn could tell you all about this! <br /><br />No, the break was all about the succession and the future of the Tudor monarchy. Of all of the children that Henry and Catherine of Aragon only Mary had survived. We can look forward to the reign of Elizabeth to see that a female sovereign could be a very good thing indeed. But from Henry’s perspective there was simply no precedent. Or rather there was, Matilda, the heir of Henry I, hardly an encouraging example. The thing is that the Tudor dynasty had been established only after a bitter dynastic war, still within living memory. With no son to succeed him it was quite likely that a new struggle would begin. So his dispute with Rome was all about politics, not pleasure. Incidentally when Clement prevaricated over Henry’s request he was in the power of the emperor Charles V, who just happened to be Catherine’s nephew.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-16769701696448576972012-01-29T15:33:19.338-08:002012-01-29T15:33:19.338-08:00Anthony, Powell certainly. Manifestos of one kind...Anthony, Powell certainly. Manifestos of one kind or another are the bane of humanity.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-68396048002655952822012-01-28T03:05:13.636-08:002012-01-28T03:05:13.636-08:00Hi Ana. I was reading more on GK Chesterton when I...Hi Ana. I was reading more on GK Chesterton when I saw this and thought of your blog:<br /><br />"The Protestant Reformation was merely a belated revolt of the thirteenth century pessimists. It was a backwash of the old Augustinian Puritanism against the Aristotelian liberality."<br /><br />Incidentally,<br /><br />Each generation instinctively sought its saint: 'not what the people want, but what the people need.'<br /><br />"Thus it was the paradox of history that each generation is converted by the saint who contradicts it most."Nobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10088033081316289008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-23891349206827913322012-01-27T09:00:17.986-08:002012-01-27T09:00:17.986-08:00Henry re-wrote the script of England according to ...Henry re-wrote the script of England according to his personal pleasure. Not for the nation's good. <br /><br />see link: <br /><br />http://my.telegraph.co.uk/nobby/hdgdggd/5434551/Catholic_Martyrs/Nobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10088033081316289008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-79945777650753193732012-01-26T20:32:46.934-08:002012-01-26T20:32:46.934-08:00They really should burn all the talmuds, Kurahns, ...They really should burn all the talmuds, Kurahns, Bibles, Communist Manifestos and maybe, just maybe, the world would be a better place.anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02931330128135957439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-88801508212584058312012-01-26T16:56:56.746-08:002012-01-26T16:56:56.746-08:00How about Powell?How about Powell?anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02931330128135957439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-44172671852515643152012-01-26T15:23:11.034-08:002012-01-26T15:23:11.034-08:00Richard, that was a shocking episode. Father boug...Richard, that was a shocking episode. Father bought <i>Satanic Verses</i> as an act of simple solidarity, though he did not like Rushdie's previous work. That a book could be burned on the streets of this country invokes Heine's warning.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-32837080756786216312012-01-26T15:19:15.532-08:002012-01-26T15:19:15.532-08:00Anthony, any warnings from those movements came we...Anthony, any warnings from those movements came well after the event.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-10412896440724461022012-01-26T15:17:25.955-08:002012-01-26T15:17:25.955-08:00Calvin, they most certainly are. The Unholy Roman...Calvin, they most certainly are. The Unholy Roman Empire is one of the terms I have used for the European Union.Anastasia F-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01284602529524462457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-55371330464699913552012-01-26T11:02:11.440-08:002012-01-26T11:02:11.440-08:00Ana the erosion of the roots of our identity began...Ana the erosion of the roots of our identity began when the Fatwa was placed on Rushdie over two decades ago. The police failed to act in what was incitement to murder, because the rot had already set in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-70053148243854776992012-01-25T20:30:38.276-08:002012-01-25T20:30:38.276-08:00You were warned by the BNP and EDL etc. etc. etc.You were warned by the BNP and EDL etc. etc. etc.anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02931330128135957439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4413130168723738166.post-62918923609566369192012-01-25T19:47:46.653-08:002012-01-25T19:47:46.653-08:00Exactly! I have sometimes wondered whether the gr...Exactly! I have sometimes wondered whether the great European project was, in fact, a form of covert Counter-Reformation designed not just to unify the nations of Europe, but to finally fulfill the dream of one single Holy Roman Empire, something that neither church nor state ever managed to achieve. It's hard to explain, otherwise, the intensity of passion and zealotry the project's faithful apply to their scheme, and their willingness to discard almost 2000 years of regional and local diversity. <br /><br />But how to explain not just the wholesale discarding of British law, and its replacement with EU mandates and regulations, but the tolerance and acceptance at the same time of sharia kangaroo courts? The times are out of joint . . .Calvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10640148105202971907noreply@blogger.com